AWI uniform question

[goat major]

Specifically targetting Brendan but as usual all thread divergence entertained.

Guards light companies in the Southern campaign . Black cross belts or white ?

Guards drummer in southern campaign - red coat or reversed ?

[MarshalNey]

Goat, nobody cares.

[goat major]

I realise that Mexicans don’t usually get close enough to notice the details

[Buff Orpington]

Yes they do, they just aren't in any condition to record their findings.

[Tim Hall]

Specifically targetting Brendan but as usual all thread divergence entertained.

Guards light companies in the Southern campaign . Black cross belts or white ?

Guards drummer in southern campaign - red coat or reversed ?

Guards drummers have never worn reversed coats, their uniforms were red with blue facings and all the extra lace on them. By the time of the Southern campaigns the uniforms across the board would be fairly battleworn. But I am sure Brendan would give you a more detailed answer. But I do not believe there was much compliance with Royal warrants etc.

[BaronVonWreckedoften]

Guards drummers have never worn reversed coats, their uniforms were red with blue facings and all the extra lace on them. By the time of the Southern campaigns the uniforms across the board would be fairly battleworn. But I am sure Brendan would give you a more detailed answer. But I do not believe there was much compliance with Royal warrants etc.

Give that man a cee-garr!!. Pretty much spot on, Tim. Whilst there indeed wasn't a great deal of compliance with the 1768 Warrant in the field, that was deliberate - and to some extent expected. With typical, and commendable, thrift, the Crown forces used last year's uniform to create "combat dress", leaving the latest issue for "best"; this includes officers too, by the way - almost all junior regimental officers would have a soldier's plain coat (augmented by a sash, possibly an epaulette, but probably not a gorget post-1776) made up for them to wear in the field to keep their regimentals for best.

As Tim rightly says, Guards musicians - and indeed those of other Royal regiments (basically anyone with dark blue facings) - never wore reversed colours. Incidentally, a handy panting tip: a simple way to distinguish the Guards apart from mere "Royals" was that Guards lace would look white from a distance, whilst that of a Royal regiment would look yellow, which was the dominant colour of the Hanoverian dynasty (the Guelphs, since you asked).

There is some thought that the Guards were wearing new uniforms from around the time of Guilford Courthouse, maybe just after, but other info suggests that the entire Yorktown garrison got a fresh supply of new uniforms in October 1781. It seems unlikely - though not impossible - that both happened, but I suspect the Guards did get a new issue at some point in that year. Normally, a fresh issue would not be worn in the field straight away; usually, last year's "new" would be cut down and modified instead, but that may not have been possible for Cornwallis's force which had been in the field pretty much continuously since the capture of Charleston, SC. As modern-day chaps, we tend to change our clothes rather more often in a week than the typical 18th Century soldier did in a year. He'd carry spare shirts and socks and hopefully also a spare pair of shoes, in his pack (but no underwear - you tied the shirt tails tied together between your legs and hoped the knot didn't rub!). Such clothing would be washed/laundered regularly, but it would be expected to last him at least a year until the new issue arrived.

Hope that helps, if only with certain members' insomnia.

[goat major]

Cheers !

So no views on light infantry belts/straps being black or white ?

[Tim Hall]

Cheers !

So no views on light infantry belts/straps being black or white ?

I have a quick look at that Simon. I cannot find evidence to say it was a "Light Infantry" thing. It appears some light companies adopted a black cartridge box strap, and also a black waistbelt, but other light companies also wore whitened belts. So it is not a hard and fast rule, but may just be a local adaptation. It might also reflect a lack of pipe clay supplies, or even to give less for Colonial riflemen to aim, at.

[Tim Hall]

Guards drummers have never worn reversed coats, their uniforms were red with blue facings and all the extra lace on them. By the time of the Southern campaigns the uniforms across the board would be fairly battleworn. But I am sure Brendan would give you a more detailed answer. But I do not believe there was much compliance with Royal warrants etc.

Give that man a cee-garr!!. Pretty much spot on, Tim. Whilst there indeed wasn't a great deal of compliance with the 1768 Warrant in the field, that was deliberate - and to some extent expected. With typical, and commendable, thrift, the Crown forces used last year's uniform to create "combat dress", leaving the latest issue for "best"; this includes officers too, by the way - almost all junior regimental officers would have a soldier's plain coat (augmented by a sash, possibly an epaulette, but probably not a gorget post-1776) made up for them to wear in the field to keep their regimentals for best.

As Tim rightly says, Guards musicians - and indeed those of other Royal regiments (basically anyone with dark blue facings) - never wore reversed colours. Incidentally, a handy panting tip: a simple way to distinguish the Guards apart from mere "Royals" was that Guards lace would look white from a distance, whilst that of a Royal regiment would look yellow, which was the dominant colour of the Hanoverian dynasty (the Guelphs, since you asked).

There is some thought that the Guards were wearing new uniforms from around the time of Guilford Courthouse, maybe just after, but other info suggests that the entire Yorktown garrison got a fresh supply of new uniforms in October 1781. It seems unlikely - though not impossible - that both happened, but I suspect the Guards did get a new issue at some point in that year. Normally, a fresh issue would not be worn in the field straight away; usually, last year's "new" would be cut down and modified instead, but that may not have been possible for Cornwallis's force which had been in the field pretty much continuously since the capture of Charleston, SC. As modern-day chaps, we tend to change our clothes rather more often in a week than the typical 18th Century soldier did in a year. He'd carry spare shirts and socks and hopefully also a spare pair of shoes, in his pack (but no underwear - you tied the shirt tails tied together between your legs and hoped the knot didn't rub!). Such clothing would be washed/laundered regularly, but it would be expected to last him at least a year until the new issue arrived.

Hope that helps, if only with certain members' insomnia.

I believe Brendan, that I am right in thinking that the 3rd Foot (The Buffs) would have been one of the few British regiments dressed in compliance with regulations, during the Southern Campaign, being newly arrived from Britain.

[Buff Orpington]

Buffs are always correctly attired even if everyone around us is wrong.